kawacati rebuild

[Wolfie]

When you got the plug out the small bits of what looked like metal in the spark plug and the grey ooze didn't look too good...

?? Have we missed something?

As for a previous comment about the 'overflow' tube, it would have be nipped somewhere, it will never have oil in it.


Black 'Oss was our second Triples Rally, Gareth also unveiled his H2, we were all looking and cooing over it when Dave wheeled his out.. Someone said "put it back in the van Gareth.."

[stevie747]

If it remains a mystery, how about thinking outside the box and bin the whole oil system, blank everything off and go for premix, it's not that you need it to be standard or owt - and you can rag it without shitting yourself about it doing it again

Less stuff to go wrong, less weight, and you know if you've got gas, you've got oil. Run it on A747 and it'll smell as nice as it looks :wink:

[Nick64]

When you got the plug out the small bits of what looked like metal in the spark plug and the grey ooze didn't look too good...

?? Have we missed something?

This was what I saw when I was passing Nigel tools when he got back from his "short" run out.

[husson73]

When you got the plug out the small bits of what looked like metal in the spark plug and the grey ooze didn't look too good...

?? Have we missed something?

This was what I saw when I was passing Nigel tools when he got back from his "short" run out.

and what about your engine Nick?
do you need other crankcases?
have some (S3 not KH 400) you can have them for the same price I paid them: 0 €

[El Presidente]

Less stuff to go wrong, less weight, and you know if you've got gas, you've got oil. Run it on A747 and it'll smell as nice as it looks :wink:

.
Fully agree with you, but it IS a pain to carry small bottles of oil around with you all the time.

[Nigel S]

I am fairly sure that Gary is right and I have destroyed the crank, that's what runing without oil does for ya.
Steves idea has given me an idea though.
Will still use the pump and tank though Steve.

Gary put those con rods aside for me, and I will get a crank down to you early October when I am back home.

[Nick64]

and what about your engine Nick?
do you need other crankcases?
have some (S3 not KH 400) you can have them for the same price I paid them: 0 €

So I don't hijack Nigel's thread I will start a new thread about mine when I have sufficient information and pictures - thank you for the offer I will let you know.

[Wolfie]

Fully agree with you, but it IS a pain to carry small bottles of oil around with you all the time.

Hmm.. why carry a bottle of oil? When there's a perfectly good tank to store it, already on the bike. all that's needed is a tap on the outlet and some way to measure an amount per litre of fuel.

Although, that gauze would have to go.

[scouse]

Here's a tale
Went to the Isle of man on my H1A
Thrashed it round for a week, on the M62 in the way home it nipped, whipped the clutch in, coasted to a halt, it turned over, started it up again for 100 yards it nipped up.
Got recovered home
I knew exactly what had happened, yup the gauze filter had been blocked with gloop
Stripped the filter, cleaned it up and put it back in
I then thrashed the bike for 4 yrs
Until eventually a piston let go,
I'm not even putting that down to the oil problem as in my 15 years of ownership I never ever once went into the engine.
Personally, I think lab seals are a bad idea on a triple, basically down to the length of the crank, poor engineering clearances (on the crank, as we all know the billet engine is the best triple motor out there)
Lab seals rely on oil to fill the gap between the cylinders and create a seal, rubber oil seals rely on 2 rubber lips, which incidentally sit on a sleeve that sits on the crank. Never ran lab seals, but my experience with rubber seals is like this, they have to be very shot for a triple not to run
I digress but if you adjust your air screws on your carb and it makes no difference, I would do a leak down test, as it's a sign that your crank seals are shot
Personally I'd go back to rubber seals and keep the oil system
You could always ask Ralf or Leo what they think is the best idea?
Gary T

[Nigel S]

Totally agree Gary. I have covered 10, 000 miles on the bike since I built it. Holed a piston due to blocked main jet. Now this oil failure (SWAG scientific wild arse guess).
Had some teething problems with the gear selector in the early days, but engine wise very happy.

I now have the winter to strip it down and replace the crank (will do this irrespective of what I find). I thought at the time that lab seals were the way forward. But have realised that was not the case. Seemed like a good idea at the time though.
I will be in contact with Leo and Ralf once I get it appart to see if they need pictures of anything special.

[El Presidente]

Personally I binned the idea of lab seals just after the replacement rubber ones came back out, I figured that if the originals had lasted 30 Years then new Ones would just about see me out as well.

[downpipe3]

I am fairly sure that Gary is right and I have destroyed the crank, that's what runing without oil does for ya.
Steves idea has given me an idea though.
Will still use the pump and tank though Steve.

Gary put those con rods aside for me, and I will get a crank down to you early October when I am back home.

will do mate

[downpipe3]

Personally I binned the idea of lab seals just after the replacement rubber ones came back out, I figured that if the originals had lasted 30 Years then new Ones would just about see me out as well.

its funny you should say that Rick
ive had 3 recently in the last two weeks with Ali lab seals that have failed ,they were a good idea at the time but short life im afraid

[Hal]

They must be poorly made lab seals. They should last pretty much indefinitley as there are no actual touching parts - if correctly manufactured that is.

[scouse]

They must be poorly made lab seals. They should last pretty much indefinitley as there are no actual touching parts - if correctly manufactured that is.

I feel manufacturing tolerances back in the 70's are not the best, I don't think that the quality of the lab seals would come into question, but the quality of the cases, cranks etc...
Maybe the up and down movement of the crank causes contact with the seals?.
Gary T

[Hal]

Lab seals can be a bit all over the place with their manufactured dimensions but they need to be made to very fine tolerances - or maybe it is variations in the crank cases as you suggest Gary. I've seen them too large a diameter where they crush up a little and cause binding of teh crankshaft and I've also more commonly seen them where they are a tiny bit undersize and cause a mysterious rattle in ones newly rebuilt motor

For instance ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvxohVAK4Jc

[downpipe3]

They must be poorly made lab seals. They should last pretty much indefinitley as there are no actual touching parts - if correctly manufactured that is.

hasten to add reluctantly they were Chris Ritchie seals with vitron rings round the outside
im afraid that as Leo told me many years back that Kawasaki cases are not line bored from one side they can be 3 thou out of true
the lab seal work well on twins no doubt ,Yamaha etc but alas ive pulled many apart that were built using the Ali seals ,clive smithers crank on his peacock grey h1 was one and that had only done 100 miles it had ali seals from another crank builder in uk
I have john edges to do this week they have failed

[downpipe3]

They must be poorly made lab seals. They should last pretty much indefinitley as there are no actual touching parts - if correctly manufactured that is.

I feel manufacturing tolerances back in the 70's are not the best, I don't think that the quality of the lab seals would come into question, but the quality of the cases, cranks etc...
Maybe the up and down movement of the crank causes contact with the seals?.
Gary T

Gary you are correct

[drayman]

you and me both Nigel
Just stripped the H2c motor to investigate the noise coming from it after our trip up to Blackpool.
The centre big end is worn, and has badly worn the piston pin/rings and bore
.
Had a look at the 2T filter, and its got some debris on it, I will have to get a magnifying glass on it to try and see whats on there LOL..
.
But why has it just worn the centre

[Barrie]

It's dyno poo

[Nigel S]

Ouch Kev thats not good. I am home tomorrow night, need to strip my engine snd see what damage I have done. 99.9% sure its s crank but not sure about the bores.

Will give you a call on thursday

[Nigel S]

Just seen your question at the bottom of post.
I would guess thst as you were low on oil supply, that one generated more heat