Bloody Triples ....

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Charlie
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Bloody Triples ....

Post by Charlie »

I was out on the H1F yesterday and it was going really well, so much so that I didn't want to take it back in when I got on to my road and headed off up the bypass instead.

I hit about 80 going uphill, tuned around at the roundabout and briefly hit about 85 on the way back down.

It was getting a bit twitchy at that speed and I wasn't going to push it any faster so I shut off the throttle and let it slow down of it's own accord......that's when the engine cut out on me while making a horrendous grinding noise..... Ho-Hum

I pulled the clutch in thinking the crank had gone, I felt something ping off my left training shoe (I was in proper 70's riding kit of course) so I even envisaged a hole in the casing and a rod or piston poking out...

I stopped expecting a pool of gearbox oil to come flooding out - but there was none. Nothing looked particularly wrong at first glance. Electrics were good, ignition was on. Most puzzling as I tried to kick the bike over, compression was there but it did not sound well at all, so I kicked it once and looked for the problem a bit deeper.

Thats when I noticed the left hand alternator casing had come loose. All 3 fuckin screws had vibrated out and let it move off the end of the stator. It had cut out because not only was the alternator loose and doing it's own thing (hence the grinding) - all 3 ignition pickups were no longer in contact with the stator. I was wondering what had sheared off and how much it was all going to cost as I pushed/free wheeled the bike the half mile or so home.

I stripped off the LH covers, examined the stator and pick up units, luckily aside from a slightly twisted pickup brush that was now stuck inside the housing - everything looked OK. I sorted it, put it all back together and it ran. Initially only on two - so back off with the unit and a bit more tweaking and I had it back on 3.

New plugs were needed as I'd gassed up the original set - no gripes about that. I am not absolutely convinced it hasn't knocked the timing out a little mind, cos it does not seem to warm up as quickly on 2 and 3 as it does on 1..Maybe it was like that before - I dunno. It does start first prod of the kickstart (as it did before) and drops straight onto a happy idle without touching the throttle so it cant be too far out I guess

I have put new screws in all the side casings and loctited them in place. I then checked around the bike (again - I do this regularly anyway having been troubled before with stuff coming loose)

5 of the 6 carb inlet housing nuts were less than tight. 4 of the 6 exhaust nuts were less than tight. 1 of the mudguard screws was loose. I only fitted a new mudguard to replace one that had vibed off and tightened all those up 10 miles ago. A handful of other assorted screws and bolts were also less than tight. The bike has done maybe 20 minutes to half an hours running since I checked it all last time.

What the fuck is it with these bikes and fasteners (and more importantly - major components) coming loose ? I can accept some vibration - it's a 2 stroke, I have ridden enough old shitters and 2 strokes in my day to know that stuff can work loose if neglected or not tightened properly in the 1st place but I have never ever encountered anything like this though, not on any other bike I have owned or ridden.

I really do not expect to have a maintenance van follow me around with a full compliment of spares and tools every time I go around the block for when stuff falls off.

Maybe I should buy a big tank of loctite and just dip the whole bike in it ? :D
Old Nail
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Post by Old Nail »

What I don't understand is when we rode triples in the '70's we laughed at the Brit-Bike riders for bits shaking loose from their bikes. How come our bikes now imitate Meriden Triumphs?
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

I never had this happen to me on any other bike (Japanese or Italian) in 35 years of riding on the roads.

Back in the 70's/80's when 2 strokes were vogue, I owned and rode a KH250 250LC, GT 250 and 380, pretty much every sports moped including Malaguti's and Garelli's, TS185's and 250's. X7, DT100 and more (not even mentioning all the 4 strokes I've had) and never ever had this happen in thousands of miles and dozens of bikes.

I have ridden maybe 20 miles on the H1 since rebuild:

First time out I lost the silencer securing bolts from the RH side, second time out I lost the front mudguard when the four screws holding it to the mounting bracket came loose and it disappeared down the road, that one cost me over a hundred quid to get it rechromed and I fastened it back on with new screws and nylocs (fook originality). This time out it was the entire alternator and stator that vibed loose. I KNOW all those bolts and nuts were secure when I set off. Those last two incidents in particular I went around and double checked.

Quirks and foibles I can accept - but this is just barking ....

Have I really got to nyloc everything with a nut on - and loctite every other screw and bolt ? ( It would seem the answer to that is YES of course) :D

Are they all as bad as this ? If so - maybe I should just ride around on another machine and build a complete bike from the roadside litter ? :lol: ... or have I just been unlucky ?
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malc87
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Post by malc87 »

bought my H2B (c) Off Rb in 2004 with 8000 miles on it.
now covered 13000+ ?.
Ive put fork seals in it and changed the engine oil.
Havnt used it or started it since TT 2010 :oops:
It just started 7th kick and is running like a good un.
I will take it to the manx :D
Its never broke down and nowts fallen off it :D
I do like to thrash it as many who have rode out with me will recall :D
Not sure what you are doing wrong?????????? :(
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Olde Coney
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Post by Olde Coney »

[quote="malc87
I will take it to the manx :D
Its never broke down and nowts fallen off it :D
([/quote]

oooh you shouldn't have said that Malc :lol: :lol:

And yes you do thrash the tits off a bike, just ask Rog :roll: :lol: :lol:
Too old to die young


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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

Its beyond me too Malc.

I have been back over every single fixing accessible on the outside of the bike and rechecked or tightened it. I did loctite the gearbox sprocket nut in place last time that worked loose but I now have a new NOS locktab so I will go in and change that ....

I guess I can only see what happens now.

It does not feel particularly buzzy and it definately sounds and goes as it should so it's beyond me why stuff came loose.

Maybe I was just unlucky then :?:
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Post by Tartan Triple »

out with guy yesterday on the rebuilt h1,gave it some large and bike dropped on to misfire on left,took the cover off and a screw holing the brush holder had come off,it was dangling by the wire with the screw off.spanners out,refit,check all nuts bolts and off we go again :D tartan
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scouse
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Post by scouse »

I have not really lost any parts off a triple

I have seized engines, holed pistons, had clutches explode
see pic
Image

crashed and occasionally cleaned my triples

oh and set off once without tightening the engine properly :oops:

guess you are unlucky!!

Gary T
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Post by Hal »

Charlie wrote: but I now have a new NOS locktab so I will go in and change that ....
It may be best to leave the sprocket alone as loctite is probably more reliable than the original fit lock washer. It's quite common for the sprocket to come off. The alternator loosening is also not that unusual unfortunately.
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

That is pretty scary news if errant alternators are not uncommon.....in fact, that is shit

On the upside, apart from the mudguard that escaped - I guess the rest have not cost me too much, financially at least. It's just been hassle and time. (Plenty of both)

Where stuff vibes loose, I now use better methods of fastening them back on. The alternator screws are now loctited, as are the ones in the housing over the top and the ones in the sprocket cover.

When I do swap the locktab (I just couldn't be bothered today as I'd already built the bike back up when I remembered I had the new tab) I will use loctite on the nut (again) as well as using the locktab.

Whenever I take off nuts now, or find they have loosened in normal use - I will either use spring washers or nylocs where possible. I will use Loctite if they are specials that I cannot replace ....

Perhaps my bad luck may help one or two of you guys to be able to prevent similar problems before they happen to you ;)

Gary - that is a fair old mess mate. I def do not want that problem .... :shock:
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Post by Nigel S »

I think its all to do with rebuild and settling of new parts and bolts especially.
Rebuilt my H2C 4 years ago, rode it 100 miles and then went around and tightened up all the bolts nuts on everything. Has not been any trouble since
Ever started something you wish you had'nt.
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

Maybe Nige - we will see :)
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Post by blackhat400 »

Aye charlie" is your H1 got excessive vibration ?
I have done 190mls on sunday, and 230mls last weekend, on the H2, only oil & fuel were added, :)
i only get vibration above 80 mph, its as smooth as hell at 70, 8)
5000 mls last year too, not a bolt fallen off yet,
Bishop aukland this weekend thats 460mls round trip , so i might check her over this week :wink:
A Harley" the most efficient way of turning Gasoline into noise" without the by-product of Horsepower
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

No significant vibration comes through either the handlebars or the footpegs blackhat.

It runs beautifully well since I had the carbs set up by a local dealer friend. It has no untoward noises either....well not until the alternator or mudguard falls off that is :lol:

Were it particularly buzzy or noisy I would have taken the engine down to investigate further, but it all seems fine. Even the mirrors remain reasonably viewable up to 80 or so ....yeah, they vibe a bit - but not bad.

The bike itself looks great, goes well, sounds well and handles as well as these things ever did ( which would be mediocre by today's standards of course), it's just this rather annoying problem I've had where things that appeared to be securely fastened on - managed to squirm free.

I have been back over the bike and now checked (re-tightened if it needed it) every single screw, bolt and nut on the outside of the bike, including all the casing screws. The alternator, alternator cover and sprocket cover screws I loctited in to prevent any repeat.

Perhaps as suggested earlier it was just the bike settling down after a long lay up. I had not personally taken every piece off the bike nor refitted it. Maybe the bits that escaped were never fitted properly in the first place and I had not picked up on the fact until it waved goodbye ? ............ yeah - lets put it down to that (it's much more comforting) :D
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JA - Moo
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Post by JA - Moo »

I always loctite the alt housing screws, (and cover) and use an impact to tighten the screws or replace with allens and loctite.

I also loctite the clutch nut, drive gear nut, oil pump drive bolt, and front sprocket nut. Always clean all threads of oil and such, and use the fold washers.

The reason the front sprocket comes loose a lot, is there is "play" between the splines in the gear and shaft. And you have 1000's of "pull and push" cycles on the sprocket which works the nut loose. Just one of those things you need to check periodically.

One could take a strip of feeler guage material and install in one of the sprocket flutes to take out any play, and remove the problem also.
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Charlie
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Post by Charlie »

Thanks John :smt023
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JA - Moo
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Post by JA - Moo »

Charlie wrote:Thanks John :smt023
Glad to help if I can...... :lol:
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Post by Neil the Don »

Or Araldite ......................................... :oops:
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