Is this what ethanol does to your tank

Big Al · Post by **Big Al** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:48 pm

just took the petrol tap of the tank to find this ,

I had filled up with shell super unleaded a couple of months ago and it was on reserve so not that much in , I thought I had got all the shite out after finding simular gloop in the carbs so I dumped what was remaining in the tank and put fresh fuel in but this must have been sitting in the bottom which caused my bike to stop once on a ride out to squires,it was ok when it was pulling fuel through on the (on) mark ,

so its left the smaller on the two filters on the petrol tap is totally blocked

It is almost like glue , really sticky stuff,

so it looks like a total strip down of the carbs ,fuel lines, and petrol tap, I sprayed carb cleaner on and it doesnt seem to shift it.

I have looked in the tank and the liner Por15 is still there and not sticky so it will be intresting to hear your points of veiw :102gif;

here is a few piccys and a quick vid

click on image

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:03 pm

If the petrol is the cause of this and as far as I hear many other problems, then the petrol retailers will end up getting sued, just like the ICI petrol problems in the seventies and the formula shell problems of the Eighties.
The problem is that we will all suffer in the short term, for their profit

downpipe3 · Post by **downpipe3** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:19 am

thats the stuff
another victim
this is f-----n disgusting

Rubbadub · Post by **Rubbadub** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:53 am

ref the s series forum, but this is exactly the shite that has gummed up my engine on my H2, its like Jam, I believe it was discussed between Mr Ritchie, Mr Clarke and a mutual Friend in Asbourne who is kind enough to help me out because i travel too much and havent had the time to sort it mysenn.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:13 am

That must be the POR15, surely it would not attack the metal in the tank ? I know later POR is supposedly improved and Ethanol proof - but the early stuff wasn't.

It does look horrendous whatever it is ....

It would need a concerted effort to sue the petrol manufacturers I suspect. I doubt many individuals having the resources to collate and do that though...possibly some of the vintage/owners clubs could get together and instrument something ?

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:48 am

Right guys I need you to help me out here. I am running my H1A on ordinary unleaded fuel not super, some fuel was left in it over the winter and I did not have any trouble starting it. I thought the super was for old engines or high performance 4 stroke engines that need a higher octane/ lead content? When I bought my H1 in 71 you could get 2,3,4 &5 star petrol. I may be wrong because it was a long time ago but I think 3 star was the recommended fuel for it. It did not need the higher octane and if used tended to cause the plugs to fowl more. I await to be shot down in flames

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Eric wrote:Right guys I need you to help me out here. I am running my H1A on ordinary unleaded fuel not super, some fuel was left in it over the winter and I did not have any trouble starting it. I thought the super was for old engines or high performance 4 stroke engines that need a higher octane/ lead content? When I bought my H1 in 71 you could get 2,3,4 &5 star petrol. I may be wrong because it was a long time ago but I think 3 star was the recommended fuel for it. It did not need the higher octane and if used tended to cause the plugs to fowl more. I await to be shot down in flames

I'm with you on this, all the way through the seventies onwards, and up to present day, I have always run my triples on the basic bottom of the range petrol and never had a problem

simonh · Post by **simonh** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:06 pm

me too, although when it was still available if we were thrashing bikes i'd put 3 star in it did the job.

big al just likes spending money

Rubbadub · Post by **Rubbadub** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:24 pm

Me too but it didn't have hygroscopic additives like ethanol, oh and I have no tank liner. My petrol when checked is a milky green colour

HIGGSPEED · Post by **HIGGSPEED** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:17 am

Al, have you just had your tank painted??
It looks to me like it has got sand in it from being sand blasted???
A lot of painters do this and never clean it out properly.

dohh, just re-read your original and you said it has been lined. i will go and stand in the corner.

Dandare · Post by **Dandare** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:41 pm

I used petseal to line my tank in March this year and it was a new can as the stuff has a limited shelf life, and was ethynol proof. I hope that this does not happen to my tank

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:14 am

I'm late to the party on this but the short version is your tank has the clap

What you have there appears to be the worst case of microbial contamination I have seen in gasoline. Usually it only gets that bad with bio-diesel. For lack of a better term you got some bad gas and it is fermenting.

I work at a large John Deere dealership and we fight this all the time. The newer the machine, the smaller micron the final filter has to be because the pumps are so much more precision than the old days and this crap just plugs the filters like JB Weld.

Be sure and keep an eye on it because typically it will come back. The only thing that will kill the microbes off permanently is an anti-microbial treatment. That crud laughs at normal cleaners. If you have a John Deere dealer nearby I can give you the part number for the product we use.....it will kill it off asap and will cause no harm/concern with your engine.

The dirty little secret is that the farmers want their subsidy money but most of them around here won't use bio fuels in any of their equipment because of the damage it does. The only perk is that I have non ethanol available at the pump here

scouse · Post by **scouse** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:27 am

Al
there is a John Deere dealer near ferrybridge services, as you come onto the roundabout and head south towards the A1 it is on the left, take the road to Darrington

http://www.r-f-s.com/html/depots/darrington.asp

Although I suspect there will be one nearer you!!

if not I can get some for yer

Gary T

Olde Coney · Post by **Olde Coney** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:47 am

this one (depot2) is less than 3 miles from me

http://www.henryarmer.com/

Olde Coney · Post by **Olde Coney** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:48 am

[quote="Dan"]

I can give you the part number for the product we use.....it will kill it off asap and will cause no harm/concern with your engine.

part number would be handy Dan..thnx

Neil the Don · Post by **Neil the Don** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:14 pm

Standard unleaded has an ethanol contant.

It will attack older types of tankliner. Result, Gloop !

Also, the ethanol/bio-fuel is hydroscopic. Leave it in over winter and it`ll separate and gloop up your tank,carbs etc.

AND the ethanol attacks some / most of the rubbery seals we have been using in petrol taps etc. So theoretically they should all let go at some point.

HOWEVER, I thought the SUPER Unleaded didn`t contain ethanol ??????????

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:19 pm

"I thought the SUPER Unleaded didn`t contain ethanol "

If thats the case its worth using. Does not seem to make the Triples run better but notice my Audi TT has more go with it.

Olde Coney · Post by **Olde Coney** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Neil the Don wrote:Standard unleaded has an ethanol contant.

It will attack older types of tankliner. Result, Gloop !

Also, the ethanol/bio-fuel is hydroscopic. Leave it in over winter and it`ll separate and gloop up your tank,carbs etc.

AND the ethanol attacks some / most of the rubbery seals we have been using in petrol taps etc. So theoretically they should all let go at some point.

HOWEVER, I thought the SUPER Unleaded didn`t contain ethanol ??????????

Interesting Neil, is the over winter separation due to cold weather conditions or the fact that any fuel left 'on board' just sits in the tank unmoved

scouse · Post by **scouse** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:14 pm

interesting reading

http://fbhvc.co.uk/bio-fuels/

Gary T

Neil the Don · Post by **Neil the Don** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:20 pm

The over Winter thing.

I THINK its because water content freezes at zero. While the "real" petrol doesn`t.

( And I`ve deliberately talked it " in Seemples" !! )

I`m stating that Super Unleaded is Ethanol free only from memory. Not checked it up.
I`m sure Scouse will tho`. Eh ?

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:23 pm

So what, if anything is the solution ?

I use a fuel stabiliser when parking the bikes up over winter to prevent the fuel degrading and deal with the water absorption problem, but what is the best (if there is one) solution for regular running ?

Super Unleaded ? or is there an additive ?

scouse · Post by **scouse** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:30 pm

A lot to wade through in the above link

but this bit is very worrying
Report Recommendations

The report is a weighty document of 54 pages and the Federation would like to thank all those members who submitted data which we passed to QinetiQ for inclusion

The report found that:

The majority of vehicles 10 years old or older will not be compatible with E10 due to fuel system material incompatibility issues.
Carburettor vehicles and powered two wheelers will suffer problems due to material incompatibility, corrosion, and driveability issues.
Field experience has demonstrated that vehicles and petrol fuelled equipment fitted with glass fibre fuel tanks may suffer catastrophic failure due to the incompatibility of the glass fibre resin with petrol ethanol blends.
Based on vehicle age, approximately 8.6 million vehicles will be unable to run on E10? Based on average vehicle life of 13 years very approximately half these vehicles will still be in use when the proposed phase out of E5 takes place in 2013.

The report also has a recommendations section which makes interesting reading.

Vehicles ten years old or older, carburettored vehicles (including powered two wheelers) and first generation direct spark ignition vehicles should not be fuelled on E10 unless the manufacturer can state the vehicles are compatible with E10.
E5 should not be phased out in 2013, its widespread availability should continue for the foreseeable future.
Consideration should be given to maintaining a specification for E0 fuel for historic and vintage vehicles.

we are all doomed!!!

Gary T